Apple on Tuesday found itself the target of a 785-million-pound ($1 billion) class action lawsuit brought by more than 1,500 apps developers in the UK over its App Store fees.
That’s still only 0.034% of its market cap, it would simply be a slap on the wrist even if they lose.
I ANAL 😏 but in order to claim their fees are excessive, I’d expect that the plaintiffs would need to show that they are substantially higher than fees in other circumstances. I don’t think 15-20% is unusual for other software stores, including the google play store which has a number of competitors on android, or steam on PC which also has a number of competitors on PC.
This seems to be the standard that all store fronts use. With maybe an exception on epic who purposefully went lower than the industry norm to try and excite game publishers to their storefront.
Just from some cursory googling - google and Apple are right in line. 30% with some drops into the 15% mark after time has passed in case of subscription payments.
Edit: have not been following this story but it seems like kind of an uphill battle. We know what the argument will be - it’s x percent but you’re using our product and infrastructure and we have to invest people and resources to verifying apps getting published.
Feels like the law suits that involve “allowing multiple app stores” had a higher chance of succeeding (though I have no idea the status of those lawsuits so maybe that’s already off the table)
it’s x percent but you’re using our product and infrastructure and we have to invest people and resources to verifying apps getting published.
If Apple wanted, they could allow developers to supply their own infrastructure. It would cost a lot less than 30% of the developer’s gross revenue. Apple could also charge, say, ten thousand dollars per hour for the time the review team spends checking the app. That would also work out to astronomically less than 30% of the developer’s gross revenue.
The App Store is a great service and Apple is entitled to collect a fee. But the amount they’re charging is excessive. In a fair market with proper competition they could never get away with charging that much.
But you know it’s just not Apple right? This is standard rates at this point. No one was arguing against your point - but there is an industry high rate at play here.
Just because it’s the industry standard rate doesn’t mean it’s acceptable. It used to cost $0.25 to send an SMS and $1.25 to send an international SMS. Mobile data on international roaming used to cost $10 per megabyte.
Those were standard prices. That didn’t make them “fair”. Eventually various forces came into effect in and the prices dropped down to where they are now, which is often pretty close to free.
With the monopoly control Apple has over the App Store, it isn’t possible for the natural market to push prices down to where they should be, which means the only way to get there is through lawsuits, regulation, fines, etc etc. This isn’t the first lawsuit, and it won’t be the last. Apple might win this battle but they’re not going to win the war.
Isn’t the argument less about that but but more that theres no other way to distribute on iOS outside the store. On android, windows, etc you lose visibility not being on the Play Store/Steam/etc but you can use an alternate market that takes less of a cut (Epic store) or self publish (side loading).
Not a lawyer, but I suspect where Apple could land in hot water is apparently 85% of iPhone App developers are only paying $100 per year. They don’t pay any commission to Apple at all, because the apps collect revenue via some other source.
So Apple is essentially singling out 15% of developers and forcing them to pay a extraordinarily more than what most of their competitors are paying.
I expect it will also hurt Apple’s case they are directly competing with millions of developers. You want to sell a note taking app for example? You’re competing directly with Apple. And Apple has various unfair advantages.
So Apple is essentially singling out 15% of developers and forcing them to pay a extraordinarily more than what most of their competitors are paying.
But that’s not true. And your response to this in the other comment chain was three paragraphs on sms rates. Seems like you believe somehow Apple is unique in this regard.
What’s not true? It is absolutely true that the majority of apps on the App Store don’t pay (or at least pay very little). And it’s true that the ones that do pay are paying billions of dollars.
Antitrust law is all about ensuring competitors are on equal footing with each other. Apple’s walled garden makes equal footing impossible. Is it illegal? I don’t know. But I think it should be and I hope the laws are adjusted if necessary to make it illegal.
Fair competition is critical for a functioning economy. It’s fundamentally unfair that a select few app developers are forced to collectively pay billions of dollars in fees that nobody else has to pay.
Not to mention, It isn’t a given that they win.
I ANAL 😏 but in order to claim their fees are excessive, I’d expect that the plaintiffs would need to show that they are substantially higher than fees in other circumstances. I don’t think 15-20% is unusual for other software stores, including the google play store which has a number of competitors on android, or steam on PC which also has a number of competitors on PC.
hehe anal
Given that this is about UK legislation, it really should be ANAS as we have solicitors here.
Or ANAB if you are a solicitor but not a barrister, also works well for coffee advice
Given that it’s about the UK, it really should be I BUGGERY.
The amount of euphemisms in British slang for anal sex are endless. A delivery in the tradesman’s entrance is a favourite of mine.
This seems to be the standard that all store fronts use. With maybe an exception on epic who purposefully went lower than the industry norm to try and excite game publishers to their storefront.
Just from some cursory googling - google and Apple are right in line. 30% with some drops into the 15% mark after time has passed in case of subscription payments.
Edit: have not been following this story but it seems like kind of an uphill battle. We know what the argument will be - it’s x percent but you’re using our product and infrastructure and we have to invest people and resources to verifying apps getting published.
Feels like the law suits that involve “allowing multiple app stores” had a higher chance of succeeding (though I have no idea the status of those lawsuits so maybe that’s already off the table)
If Apple wanted, they could allow developers to supply their own infrastructure. It would cost a lot less than 30% of the developer’s gross revenue. Apple could also charge, say, ten thousand dollars per hour for the time the review team spends checking the app. That would also work out to astronomically less than 30% of the developer’s gross revenue.
The App Store is a great service and Apple is entitled to collect a fee. But the amount they’re charging is excessive. In a fair market with proper competition they could never get away with charging that much.
But you know it’s just not Apple right? This is standard rates at this point. No one was arguing against your point - but there is an industry high rate at play here.
That’s doesn’t make it right. It’s excessive across the board should should be reduced.
Except Apple have no other way to distribute on iOS bar their store.
Just because it’s the industry standard rate doesn’t mean it’s acceptable. It used to cost $0.25 to send an SMS and $1.25 to send an international SMS. Mobile data on international roaming used to cost $10 per megabyte.
Those were standard prices. That didn’t make them “fair”. Eventually various forces came into effect in and the prices dropped down to where they are now, which is often pretty close to free.
With the monopoly control Apple has over the App Store, it isn’t possible for the natural market to push prices down to where they should be, which means the only way to get there is through lawsuits, regulation, fines, etc etc. This isn’t the first lawsuit, and it won’t be the last. Apple might win this battle but they’re not going to win the war.
Ok? Agree? Not arguing against any of that.
Isn’t the argument less about that but but more that theres no other way to distribute on iOS outside the store. On android, windows, etc you lose visibility not being on the Play Store/Steam/etc but you can use an alternate market that takes less of a cut (Epic store) or self publish (side loading).
Not a lawyer, but I suspect where Apple could land in hot water is apparently 85% of iPhone App developers are only paying $100 per year. They don’t pay any commission to Apple at all, because the apps collect revenue via some other source.
So Apple is essentially singling out 15% of developers and forcing them to pay a extraordinarily more than what most of their competitors are paying.
I expect it will also hurt Apple’s case they are directly competing with millions of developers. You want to sell a note taking app for example? You’re competing directly with Apple. And Apple has various unfair advantages.
But that’s not true. And your response to this in the other comment chain was three paragraphs on sms rates. Seems like you believe somehow Apple is unique in this regard.
What’s not true? It is absolutely true that the majority of apps on the App Store don’t pay (or at least pay very little). And it’s true that the ones that do pay are paying billions of dollars.
Antitrust law is all about ensuring competitors are on equal footing with each other. Apple’s walled garden makes equal footing impossible. Is it illegal? I don’t know. But I think it should be and I hope the laws are adjusted if necessary to make it illegal.
Fair competition is critical for a functioning economy. It’s fundamentally unfair that a select few app developers are forced to collectively pay billions of dollars in fees that nobody else has to pay.
Holy fuck another 3 paragraph essay. Maybe the part I fucking quoted
Trying again
You literally ignore every counterpoint and then inundate your responses with content that doesn’t apply. Try again.
More words != compelling argument or facts
Widespread problems aren’t better. These fees are excessive everywhere they appear.