• Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      He’s not wrong though.

      You can say someone was a visionary without agreeing with their vision.

      • uienia@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Nah, the term is mainly used as a praise. Otherwise you would just say “delusional nutjob”.

        • steeznson@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          She managed to recreate our entire country in her image. After she retired she boasted that Tony Blair was her greatest legacy.

          People have understandable reservations about this but the West has been living in her and Reagan’s world since they were in power.

          I think it is clumsy for Lammy to phrase it this way but the case for her being a visionary is pretty compelling. Kier is making similar noises at the moment and the subtext of this is them making a soft pitch to Tory voters by implying that they will basically be New Labour if elected.

      • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk
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        8 months ago

        You can. But honestly most sane people do not.

        More so when you know a significant % of your audiance dislikes the vision immensely.

        • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          “You can take issue with Mrs Thatcher’s prescription, but she had a big manifesto for change and set about a course that lasted for over two decades.”

          What exactly is incorrect about what he said there?

          • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk
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            8 months ago

            The word visionary.

            Hitler could be described in a simlar way.

            But if you called him a visionary id assume rightly so that you agree with a significant % of his odeals.

            • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              If people can’t understand words and how the context in which they’re used makes a difference, that’s not really David Lammy’s fault. Besides, the only people this would likely “infuriate” are the kind of cranks that don’t need an excuse to hate the Labour Party anyway.

              I mean, what aspect of Lammy’s career suggests that he is in any way sympathetic to the Conservative Party or to conservative ideals?

              • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk
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                8 months ago

                Yep. And the word visionary specifically refers to planning a future with wisdom.

                So no you are incorrect. When someone uses the term visionary. They are very much suggesting they think the ideals moved towards were wise.

                While it is entirly possible that David Lamy made the same mistake you have.

                Criticism of his use of the word is not incorrect.

              • Optional@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Perhaps he should have chosen phrasing that was less likely to explode in his face.

                For example, “Margaret Thatcher had horrible politics, but it appears she believed them. Let’s not talk about her anymore.” There, short, unambiguous, and he’d still get to mention Margaret Thatcher, which was apparently important to him.

                • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  He’s making the comparison because he wants the Labour Party to have the same kind of visionary spirit as someone like Thatcher. Not to copy the politics or ideology.

                  This is really not difficult. But because Thatcher is mentioned, everyone has a hissy fit.

                  • cook_pass_babtridge@feddit.uk
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                    8 months ago

                    Well yeah. There are other visionaries that haven’t damaged the UK as much as Thatcher, he could have mentioned them instead. But he didn’t - he made the decision to call Thatcher a visionary, same as Rachel Reeves did. It’s not just some arbitrary name he pulled out of a hat.