Of course they have. MS are putting ads everywhere in Windows. The revenue potential is huge and they have more than enough private information on everyone to do targeted ads.
Microsoft would be insane not to go down this route. It’s inevitable.
We need more devices for sale that don’t use Windows, because this won’t stop. Microsoft is a publicly traded company and their stakeholders demand infinite growth.
The only way to get away from this is to use some kind of FOSS operating system
The Grand Nagus advocating for free and open source software… there must be a novel rule of acquisition I have not heard about yet!
Rule of acquisition number 1,337: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
Sounds pretty on-brand for Rom
It’s in the revised “wormhole aliens” edition .
Rule 69420: You shall sell the product, not be it.
Someone there wants to go back to 20+ years ago when your friends mom’s Internet Explorer windows included 75 different toolbars and there was only a little bit of browser space left. The hayday of “Buddy Bar” is returning for your Edge, Outlook, and Taskbar. Next will be explorer and Excel. The future is looking bright.
Also, Bonzai Buddy.
Man, I had a girlfriend once like 20 years ago who’s dad knew I was into computers and he was so proud to show me this neat Banzai Buddy software he found, he thought he was so cool.
That was the moment that I realized that, actually, something was wrong with all the adults on this planet.
the little purple desktop buddy could come back now… powered by ai
Parents loved that little purple fucker.
so did I but I was 10 years old
It wasn’t official right from MS then. Some stupid people even behaved as if MS were the good guys (who’d also never do something like this).
The only way to get away from this is to use some kind of FOSS operating system
Been doing this for like 10 years now. It was easy to see the future of windows when windows 8 and 10 started sending user data to their cloud. Next step is always serving ads.
And people pay for Windows too. :)
It’s not too late to switch to Linux but you are very late if you haven’t done it.
You can turn off Microsoft’s ads, browser nagging, and data faucet, but as long as you are dependent on them for Windows Updates, that gives them an opportunity to undo your fixes and turn them back on.
FOSS has a similar problem in which the program author can sell out to a less-friendly entity, and when you update the software it starts misbehaving (see Audacity, Simple Mobile Tools, etc.)
This is why I use Debian stable branch. Disadvantages: outdated software (but still get security updates) Advantages: outdated software (but still get security updates) 😅
The thing is, people have been saying “you can turn off feature x” since at least 10 years now, and while that is true for a while, the operating system keeps getting shittier. There is no reason to keep using something like that unless you have to. :)
Agreed. I dual-booted years ago; start menu ads made me wipe the Windows, and Edging their way into people’s computers made me realize how meaningless the antitrust lawsuit was.
It’s a slow march toward subscription OS and when it’s their computer, people probably won’t be able to use the nice one-click registry hacks to remove the ads and spyware.
If there’s anything particular about your Linux OS that you don’t like, there’s likely a different distro that does it the way you want, or dig in and learn how to change it.
The bane of the public company. Once you get big enough that you’re no longer able to sustain 20% yoy growth your investors will force you to leave no stone unturned.
They’ve already put in telemetry
Next they’ll put in ads
Then they’ll sell subscriptions to get rid of the ads
Then the subscription will become the minimum viable product
Then they’ll put ads back in
Then they get Premium subscriptions
Then they put ads in there and release the Ultimate subscriptions
etc etc
The problem is the alternative is Google who is already worse. Linux is needed but until mass consumers reject ads it will never go mainstream.
but until mass consumers reject ads it will never go mainstream
Cory Doctorow said that half of all Internet users use adblockers (dunno where he got that statistic but I tend to trust that man)
We’re all living through the enshittocene, a great enshittening, in which the services that matter to us, that we rely on, are turning into giant piles of shit.
lol
i feel like i’m not actually against ads. i’m against the abuse of ads, that take away from the user experience…
i won’t mind seeing an ad if it doesnt get in the way of what i need to do on the pc. i don’t need an ad popping up when im trying to work on something, launch an application, download a file, etc. an ad in the corner, big enough for me to be aware of it, but obscure enough to not interrupt me will serve its purpose.
problem is, ad exposure is non-regulated and i can’t believe how the constant ad spamming doesn’t seem to phase a lot of people.
I don’t think there should be any ads in a paid OS.
Thunderbird is a great alternative to Outlook.
And when they figure out how to serve ads on IMAP, you can take thunderbird to another provider.
I don’t think it’ll actually come to that, due to popularity, but I can see them blocking IMAP access on new accounts due to ‘security’.
Exchange was always the EEE to standard mail/calendar protocols. They have a path towards that.
They’ve already moved Active Directory to the cloud, they’re normalizing “Microsoft owns your accounts, even business ones”. All the content on Teams lives on Azure, and I believe SharePoint is doing the same.
Microsoft is EEEing the Fortune 500.
What is eee?
Embrace Extend Extinguish
deleted by creator
As is Mailspring
Really? I’ve heard it kinda sucks these days. I used to use it years back though and am a big Firefox supporter.
I’ve used Thunderbird for years, and still do. I love it.
IMAP, 30GB account, contacts and calendar synced with our Nextcloud server. Can search for a term and receive a list of emails going back years instantly.
I can open Thunderbird, search for an email from 2016, and be replying to it faster than my wife’s identical PC can even finish loading the Outlook splash screen (may contain traces of hyperbole).
Huh good to know. Thanks for the details!
Holy shit. I just googled Thunderbird and it is looking sleek AF.
I couldn’t use it in the past at work since they only supported “modern” auth methods and no IMAP/pop3.
Firefox didn’t support it back then and I was stuck with evolution. Which isn’t bad functionally. It just still looks like it was designed in the 90s.
I’m not using any email client privately atm. But it’s nice to see the UI also got some love.
I’ve recently set up Mutt with Fetchmail and Procmail. Getting mail over IMAP (with keeping those on server), putting it into one mailbox, archiving read, segmented by year and zstd-compressed, with macros for switching between outgoing SMTP accounts.
Takes little space, works fast and is very convenient once set up.
It’s a very different taste from what you are describing, though.
No. A year or two ago they did a big redesign and added a lot of functionality. Of course, whenever you have changes to a software there will be some stuffy old dudes crying about it. So everywhere you look there are people who are upset because the interface is different from what they were used to even though it is way more modern and much more useful, and better for users - especially new users.
Appreciate the insight, thanks
I have only used it briefly but it seems decent at first glance. On par with any other major client (MacOS mail, outlook etc)
Though I tend to only read email on my phone, these days. That’s why I haven’t used it much.
I recently switched to it from Outlook and while it lacks some of the features of Outlook, it’s not a bad replacement.
the recent changes to thunderbird are welcome improvements. you should give it another shot.
It has been working great for me for years. I do turn off automatic updates because occasionally they release a buggy version, but it gets fixed.
Email spam is already bad enough I don’t need that shit built in
Hi @SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works, we are sorry to hear you are not satisfied with our ad service. We always strive to bring you the best user experience on the web and in your Windows Operating System. We want to offer you a 10% discount on your next purchase for a 24 month Office365-VPN Home Suite: [STAYSAVE10]. We hope you like us more now. Thank you for reading this ad.
A couple of weeks ago I tried Outlook 365 when Windows Mail made me mad for the 1000th time because it has issues to actually send the E-Mails from one of my accounts…
Anyway, outlook started and of course just added my Microsoft Account ignoring all other accounts that could’ve been imported from Windows mail. There was a new mail so I clicked it. Although Firefox is my default browser, edge opened and there was a website. It took me multiple seconds to realize that Microsoft just baited me to click an ad and earn a couple of cents.
I got so angry that I installed thunderbird. If I compare it with older releases from a couple of years ago it did get a whole lot better. I’m very happy.
Windows gave me so many reasons in the last months that I also ditched it completely. Running Linux Mint now and just like thunderbird it is so much more refined if I compare it with the past…
Paying money for crappy subscription based software like office (need it for work) and still getting ads was definitely the no 1 reason to switch.
The windows mail was a really nice UI, thunderbird doesn’t look nice to me.
Outlook sucks though
Nice, now you have to pay for giving your data to Microsoft, lol. Who would do that?!
Just a few hundred million people, I guess.
One must consider all who use outlook for business, there is no ads and I believe the say even no tracking. 🤷🏻♀️ so yea, I use outlook as well, but not because I want and not with ducking ads.
Just to clarify: there’s Outlook (M365) which is just the old Outlook, both as an app and webapp. Then there’s New Outlook, which looks like old Outlook but is a different, incomplete and hot garbage replacement for Windows Mail, Calender etc. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/new-outlook-vs-outlook-in-microsoft-365/e367b524-b637-49ac-8405-3d801af343c1
Well the “old” outlook included in M365 has now the option to „try new outlook“ which I activated. It looks like the Outlook in the screenshot (and like the web version of outlook) How many versions of outlook are there now?! 🤣
It actually is the web version, iirc
Ahhh I forgot about that other New Outlook, which is still mostly old M365 Outlook with just lots of new bugs because the interface has changed and some functionality removed, it is sorta the same binary executable… so I think the list is:
- Windows Mail
- Windows Calendar
- Windows Contacts
- New Outlook (replacing the above)
- Old Outlook
- Old New Outlook (being modified Old Outlook)
- Consumer Webmail Outlook (being counterpart to New Outlook)
- Business Webmail Outlook (being counterpart to Old Outlook)
- … did I miss anything? Will there be a Business Mail New Outlook Webapp?
No one is paying for it. It’s a free app.
This isn’t Outlook from the paid Office suit. This is the shitty free “Mail” app that has been renamed to also be called Outlook because Microsoft sucks at naming things.
You pay for Windows.
Outlook itself is aka Hotmail, Windows Live Mail, MSN mail, and so on and so forth.
No that’s still not the Outlook this is talking about.
They use the name Outlook for THREE things now…
Outlook - the application from the Office suit
Outlook - the email service
Outlook - the shitty free email client
Vermont can outlaw billboards across the state, but when it comes to everything digital, it seems like nothing’s safe. We cannot even check out email on a dedicated email client application without being subjected to ads, both in the form of spam emails, marketing lists, and now even ads from the program itself.
IMO the government should be stepping in to regulate where ads can be placed, just like Vermont did with billboards.
I’ll just leave this here: https://www.thunderbird.net/
Damn, this looks WAY better than when I used Thunderbird in 2020. Gonna have to give it another try on my work laptop since I use Outlook there.
So protonmail is pretty cool.
Made the switch last year from Gmail and I love it. I set up a custom domain and a catch all address as well, so I can give out whateveriwant@mydomain.com as an email and it gets to me. Particularly nice for finding out who’s sharing my information, as well as picking out phishing emails. Banking coming in from amazon@mydomain.com? Immediate red flag.
Forgot about the catchall, but the realPart+fakegarbgae@myDomain.com trick works great for filtering stuff.
E: on protonMail, that is.
You should note that this was a Gmail feature that is now made available by a bunch of email providers, but you might wanna check that you do indeed get your emails delivered to plus addresses before you rush out to change your contact info everywhere. Some providers have lacking support and sometimes emails may fail to send to plus addresses even if your side does support it. Using a catchall will always work because you know, that’s just how email works.
Some sites also reject the + emails.
I wonder why…
My current provider supports @somegarbage.mail.domain.com style which is a good alternative to the + sign thing.
I do not understand why anyone would use Outlook when thunderbird is free and, in my experience, much more functional.
Prior to this new version of Outlook, Outlook was much more functional than Thunderbird and it wasn’t close. That being said while a year ago I’d say you were smoking dope, as of right now you are correct, new Outlook sucks.
Ah, I have only used both a relatively small amount, and from my experience I think thunderbird is more functional, flawed though my perspective may be. In what ways has outlook been more functional, from your perspective?
I pay for a plugin so I can use Thunderbird with the exchange server (and 2FA) my office has. Best purchase in a long time, I think it’s like a dollar a month or something, pretty cheap.
What do you like about thunderbird?
One thing I like is that it runs on Linux, so outlook isn’t an option for me anyway.
I tried other mail clients but most of them don’t work with exchange servers (and 2FA)
Does thunderbird still look and feel like it was designed in 1998?
Maybe not 1998 but it definitely has a particular look. I like it though, it’s utilitarian.
Yeah this was an immediate no from me on my home PC that I run windows on so I went and downloaded Thunderbird and have been happy ever since.
Why was that the red line for you, given all the other shit that’s already in Windows?
Well no. It was the red like for outlook though. I already used Thunderbird on my Kubuntu setup. Outlook was fine before the top email became an add. It was also easy to integrate with my work email.
I see. I misunderstood your comment.
What’s keeping you on Windows given you know “how to Linux”?
Honestly convenience. It’s easier to use for work. Also just found it easier to for gaming. At least that was true when I first started using Linux 5 or so years ago. I was dual booting on my old build and haven’t taken the time to partition a Linux distro on my new build. I run Kubuntu on a 2011 MacBook Pro for a smart home setup and I love it. The machine was almost useless and now runs about as well as any other laptop I’ve got. So I guess the short answer is I need/like having the option.
The article only seems to mention free consumer accounts, if I didn’t accidentally skip a section. Does anyone know how this will affect M365 subscribers (both consumer/enterprise)? I use Outlook every day at work and the lack of features in the web app make it basically unusable for me.
the standalone office application called ‘outlook’ is still existing… (for now, and until microsoft comes up with a way to fk that up too)
some moron at microsoft just decided it would be a good idea to dilute the strength of the outlook name by using it on webmail and the new (cr)app version in windows.
It’s already on the way, the office app “outlook” has a “new outlook” mode, which is this same web based version that only talks to Microsoft servers, so even if you use a non Microsoft email account, Microsoft takes your credentials,syncs your email to their server and then shows it to you through the web outlook.
Microsoft tried to shanghai me to the “new outlook”. When I realized the scope of what they were trying to do, under the guise of a simple software update, I was floored. I don’t even think Google, with all of their Borg-ish tendencies, would attempt such a blatant hijacking of user data. The privacy implications are profound.
Oh, that’s bad. I’m not a Microsoft user, but one of the reasons I avoid third party mail apps is that I don’t want them to hold onto my mail on their own servers. That a $3T company is doing it is really disturbing, because it’s something I have only associated with slimy startups.
The moment I saw them trying to do this, I switched to Thunderbird.
You were using it before? Why?
Edit: yeah, fuck me for asking a simple question
The biggest reason i think. Is because it is used in most buisnesses. So it is easy to use the same email client at home for most folk.
Because I had been using MSN (which became Outlook) since 2001 and didn’t really have a reason to switch.
This is basically “dog bites man” territory at this point.
This was always the case in the web version of Outlook, and the mobile client. If you subscribe to 365, ads are removed.
I noticed this last year when I moved away from 365 and started getting ads on the Outlook mobile client. I ended up binning it off and just used the default Mail app on iOS, which is a shame because the Outlook app on phones is actually superb. Not good enough to put up with ads though.
In app ads are removed, but what about the tracking and then showing you ads on other sites and services is that also removed when you pay? I can say that uBlock still killed hundreds of trackers on my paid outlook premium account.
Donate to Mozilla Thunderbird. Free software isn’t free.
At least running Pihole eliminates these ads, same for the Android outlook app.
The constant shitty changes that I have to combat are enough to make me explore other options, however. I don’t want to have to fight against the software I use.
I’ll give Thunderbird another go (used it years past and bounced off), and failing that maybe I’ll pick emClient back up (used to use it for managing multiple Google work accounts).
My difficulty is that I use a Microsoft hosted email, and integration with third party applications for contacts & calendar has always been an issue. Maybe it’s time to move those to my Nextcloud instance?
